Comments on: Pictland should be plural http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/ Early medievalist's thoughts and ponderings Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:56:44 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Betty http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5847 Betty Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:20:34 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5847 I agree. Still there it is for all to see whether or not they may or may not be a discerning viewer. Just for your information the original John White paintings (from which the engravings came from)are surprisingly enough on this web site: posters.com just search John White, artist. ~Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. I think until any real evidence turns up, my recreational search is done. Betty. I agree. Still there it is for all to see whether or not they may or may not be a discerning viewer. Just for your information the original John White paintings (from which the engravings came from)are surprisingly enough on this web site: posters.com just search John White, artist. ~Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. I think until any real evidence turns up, my recreational search is done. Betty.

]]> By: Jonathan Jarrett http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5846 Jonathan Jarrett Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:36:09 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5846 Well, I think that de Bry knew no more than we do and probably less, given that as an ex-pat Fleming I doubt he knew the symbol stones well! What we have here is an illustration of the tradition of the Picts of Tacitus's <em>Agricola</em> isn't it, and not anything with evidential value for the Picts themselves. Well, I think that de Bry knew no more than we do and probably less, given that as an ex-pat Fleming I doubt he knew the symbol stones well! What we have here is an illustration of the tradition of the Picts of Tacitus’s Agricola isn’t it, and not anything with evidential value for the Picts themselves.

]]> By: Betty http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5843 Betty Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:07 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5843 Jonathan, I found a North Carolina University web site which seems to give engraved illustrations of Pict warriors, found in the book, "A True Report of the New Found Land of Virginia" written in 1588 by Thomas Hariot. Hariot includes engravings by Theodor de Bry of Picts to explain what other countries primative warriors looked like (I guess in comparrison to American primative indians). The website is: learnnc.org/lp/multimedia/6277 I am also going to try and forward the page to you. I would just search learnnc.org and then search Pict engravings. I would be interested to know what you thought after viewing this. -If interested. Betty. Jonathan, I found a North Carolina University web site which seems to give engraved illustrations of Pict warriors, found in the book, “A True Report of the New Found Land of Virginia” written in 1588 by Thomas Hariot. Hariot includes engravings by Theodor de Bry of Picts to explain what other countries primative warriors looked like (I guess in comparrison to American primative indians).
The website is:
learnnc.org/lp/multimedia/6277
I am also going to try and forward the page to you. I would just search learnnc.org and then search Pict engravings.
I would be interested to know what you thought after viewing this. -If interested. Betty.

]]> By: Jonathan Jarrett http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5759 Jonathan Jarrett Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:36:49 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5759 I'm afraid I don't know of anything actually showing the warriors painted, no, and this might be one field where I can be reasonably confident that I would. Who knows if the stones used to be painted, of course! It has been suggested that they were, at least. I’m afraid I don’t know of anything actually showing the warriors painted, no, and this might be one field where I can be reasonably confident that I would. Who knows if the stones used to be painted, of course! It has been suggested that they were, at least.

]]> By: Betty http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5756 Betty Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:22:20 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5756 All links above were good, and appreciated. Most sites show the stone art and symbols. I'm thinking there probably isn't anything showing a painted Pict warrior? The pre-Book of Kells Pict history and their possible influence on the monk artists of Iona is very interesting. I wish Scotland much success in discovering more artifacts and information on their Pict history. A very interesting history for sure. Betty. All links above were good, and appreciated. Most sites show the stone art and symbols.
I’m thinking there probably isn’t anything showing a painted Pict warrior? The pre-Book of Kells Pict history and their possible influence on the monk artists of Iona is very interesting. I wish Scotland much success in discovering more artifacts and information on their Pict history. A very interesting history for sure. Betty.

]]> By: Jonathan Jarrett http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5735 Jonathan Jarrett Sun, 01 Nov 2009 10:02:23 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5735 They definitely had their own unique style, though as I say in this post, who "they" are in this instance is a difficult question and I think the art may have been almost all that united them, at least as far as we can now see. I don't think you'll find the PASJ online, not least because the Society that originated it is now rather troubled, but you may get somewhere with <a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=hxC&q=+site:www.pictart.org+Pictish+Arts+Society&ei=E1vtSuX6E96RjAec4b2TDQ&sa=X&oi=manybox&resnum=2&ct=all-results&ved=0CAIQqAQwAg" rel="nofollow">what's left of their old website</a> or <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PictsArt/" rel="nofollow">the Yahoo group they briefly had running</a>. The <a href="http://pictish-arts-society.org/" rel="nofollow">new site is up but not finished</a>, and <a href="http://pictish-arts-society.org/contact.html" rel="nofollow">the contact details on that</a> might be good; if so, I'm sure they'd at least be able to e-mail you scans of the article. If not, comment back here and I'll see what I can do with my copy. They definitely had their own unique style, though as I say in this post, who “they” are in this instance is a difficult question and I think the art may have been almost all that united them, at least as far as we can now see. I don’t think you’ll find the PASJ online, not least because the Society that originated it is now rather troubled, but you may get somewhere with what’s left of their old website or the Yahoo group they briefly had running. The new site is up but not finished, and the contact details on that might be good; if so, I’m sure they’d at least be able to e-mail you scans of the article. If not, comment back here and I’ll see what I can do with my copy.

]]> By: Betty http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5734 Betty Sun, 01 Nov 2009 05:48:49 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5734 Please forgive my uneducated comments and thank you so much for replying and for your journal reference that perhaps I might be able to locate on the internet. The artistic talents, skills, tools and artistic spiritual perspectives of world cultures, historically is so interesting to me, with art being a common thread for man throughout human history. I want to credit the Picts with being a particularly artistic people. I realize much is just not known. Thank you again. Please forgive my uneducated comments and thank you so much for replying and for your journal reference that perhaps I might be able to locate on the internet. The artistic talents, skills, tools and artistic spiritual perspectives of world cultures, historically is so interesting to me, with art being a common thread for man throughout human history. I want to credit the Picts with being a particularly artistic people. I realize much is just not known. Thank you again.

]]> By: Jonathan Jarrett http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5720 Jonathan Jarrett Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:47:53 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5720 There's considerable argument, among the very small group of people who care about such things, about whether they really did have tattoos or whether they just wore body-paint for battle; the most recent thing on the subject is Kyle Gray, "Tattoo Redux: <i>Picti</i>, Pechts and the Motherland" in <em>Journal of the Pictish Arts Society</em> Vol. 12 (Edinburgh 1998), pp. 24-39, but it gets a bit <a href="http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/matriliny-is-not-matriarchy-repeat-after-me-interdisciplinary-conversation-iii/" rel="nofollow">crazy about the importance of mothers in Pictish society</a>. It does collect all the references to painting and/or tattooing though; there aren't so very many... Glad you found the post of interest! There’s considerable argument, among the very small group of people who care about such things, about whether they really did have tattoos or whether they just wore body-paint for battle; the most recent thing on the subject is Kyle Gray, “Tattoo Redux: Picti, Pechts and the Motherland” in Journal of the Pictish Arts Society Vol. 12 (Edinburgh 1998), pp. 24-39, but it gets a bit crazy about the importance of mothers in Pictish society. It does collect all the references to painting and/or tattooing though; there aren’t so very many… Glad you found the post of interest!

]]> By: Betty http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-5715 Betty Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:35:09 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-5715 This really was interesting. I thought we might have the oldest US archeology in the Ohio Valley with the Adean peoples and the Anasazi out west but the Picts appear to be older. Its really breathtaking that you have structures, stones and language to explore from this time period. I became interested in Picts reading that the Romans found them frightening in battle because of the blue tatoo art work on their naked bodies. So much to explore there. Their choice of tatoo imagery, their war style mind set and why did it frighten Romans. It would take alot to frighten Roman soldiers I'd think! That would be some art work to see! Oh to be a fly on a tree watching the Picts interacting, or better yet, tatooing one another other. Betty, Texas. This really was interesting. I thought we might have the oldest US archeology in the Ohio Valley with the Adean peoples and the Anasazi out west but the Picts appear to be older. Its really breathtaking that you have structures, stones and language to explore from this time period. I became interested in Picts reading that the Romans found them frightening in battle because of the blue tatoo art work on their naked bodies. So much to explore there. Their choice of tatoo imagery, their war style mind set and why did it frighten Romans. It would take alot to frighten Roman soldiers I’d think! That would be some art work to see! Oh to be a fly on a tree watching the Picts interacting, or better yet, tatooing one another other. Betty, Texas.

]]> By: John Smith http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-3491 John Smith Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:39:39 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-3491 very interesting and I think you are right on the money with how they Picts "disappeared" through some sort of assimiliation. It happens worldwide....like the Anastazi for instance. very interesting and I think you are right on the money with how they Picts “disappeared” through some sort of assimiliation. It happens worldwide….like the Anastazi for instance.

]]> By: Phylicia http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-3410 Phylicia Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:38:33 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-3410 Hm, guess my information was severely off! Thanks for the links... Hm, guess my information was severely off! Thanks for the links…

]]> By: Jonathan Jarrett http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-3310 Jonathan Jarrett Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:53:57 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-3310 Glad to have helped, but, er, I should read a little more widely about Patrick than that if I were you. The location of his birth is not securely identified, and Dumbarton was never in Pictland anyway, being the capital of the Britons of Strathclyde! <a href="http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/early/origins/rom_celt/romessay.html" rel="nofollow">These</a> <a href="http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artsou/patrick.htm" rel="nofollow">links</a> <a href="http://celticchristianity.org/library/patrick.html" rel="nofollow">may</a> <a href="http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question63641.html" rel="nofollow">help</a> <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/dumbarton" rel="nofollow">you</a>. Glad to have helped, but, er, I should read a little more widely about Patrick than that if I were you. The location of his birth is not securely identified, and Dumbarton was never in Pictland anyway, being the capital of the Britons of Strathclyde! These links may help you.

]]> By: Phylicia http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-3308 Phylicia Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:52:35 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-3308 Hi Jonathan, I enjoyed reading this post. It helped me understand more about the Picts... I am doing a research paper on Ireland, and am writing the history of ancient Ireland currently and your site came up when I was searching Pictland, from where St. Patrick originated (in Dumbarton). Thanks for the insight. Phylicia Duran Hi Jonathan,

I enjoyed reading this post. It helped me understand more about the Picts… I am doing a research paper on Ireland, and am writing the history of ancient Ireland currently and your site came up when I was searching Pictland, from where St. Patrick originated (in Dumbarton). Thanks for the insight.

Phylicia Duran

]]> By: The Four Stone Hearth #37 - The Pulp SciFi Edition « Hot Cup of Joe http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/pictland-should-be-plural/#comment-2009 The Four Stone Hearth #37 - The Pulp SciFi Edition « Hot Cup of Joe Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:33:33 +0000 http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/?p=283#comment-2009 [...] Pictland Should Be Plural, by Jonathan Jarrett. [...] [...] Pictland Should Be Plural, by Jonathan Jarrett. [...]

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